South American Quality vs UAW Quality

[dfw.embalmer]

I know I am tampering with a hornets nest here......BUT clearly my Fiesta's fit and finish is WORLDS better than my 2008 Focus (that I traded) was, and my wife's 2009 Focus that we still currently have.

The doors on the Fiesta are as tight as a Lexus......and there is NO wind noise. NO rattles in the dash (09 and 08 Focus DO have rattles, wifes 09 Focus is a top of the line SEL)

My Fiesta is a SE, that I upfitted with every option that the SES and SEL have except leather. It's tight no rattles, no wind noise...everything is perfect.

SO the question.....$70 per hour union labor, or South American labor that is just proud to have a job, and takes "PRIDE" in their work.

This is one of those things that makes you go....hmmmmmmmm

[Jazzdog]

Maybe not a fair comparison as the 08/09 Focus is in reality legacy from the 00 model in a lot of respects. Starting with new tools for components and assy line has a lot of advantages.

Why don't we table the discussion until after the 11 NA Focus shows up? After all, they are assembling the parts they are given with the tools they are provided.

[golf strom]

Remember that your US MKI Focus is a decade old design that was originally totally designed by FoE, I was able to drive a EU MKI Focus from new and I can tell you that the German assembled 2002 model that I drove was very well made and had very tight fit lines....The quality was really second to none as the German ADAC consistantly gave the EU Focus MKI top ratings in quality and reliability.

The US MKI Focus did not have so fortunate a life, as when it debuted here it was drastically altered from the EU model in order to make it cheaper..so quality durability, and reliability suffered greatly compared to the almost identical looking EU model...On top of that the Mexican factory was not a very modern plant so uniformity and consistancy was not high on the list...Our ZX3 was not the best made although luckily the EU handling and controls did make it here.

The current US Focus is a fuglified version of the MKI that was almost totally restyled in Dearborn MI....It is no doubt that in order to make this car as cheap as possible tolerances and such were relegated to the bottom of Fords list...

[dfw.embalmer]

Originally Posted by golf strom

Remember that your US MKI Focus is a decade old design that was originally totally designed by FoE, I was able to drive a EU MKI Focus from new and I can tell you that the German assembled 2002 model that I drove was very well made and had very tight fit lines....The quality was really second to none as the German ADAC consistantly gave the EU Focus MKI top ratings in quality and reliability.

The US MKI Focus did not have so fortunate a life, as when it debuted here it was drastically altered from the EU model in order to make it cheaper..so quality durability, and reliability suffered greatly compared to the almost identical looking EU model...On top of that the Mexican factory was not a very modern plant so uniformity and consistancy was not high on the list...Our ZX3 was not the best made although luckily the EU handling and controls did make it here.

The current US Focus is a fuglified version of the MKI that was almost totally restyled in Dearborn MI....It is no doubt that in order to make this car as cheap as possible tolerances and such were relegated to the bottom of Fords list...

I can tell you that the German assembled 2002 model that I drove was very well made and had very tight fit lines....The quality was really second to none as the German ADAC consistantly gave the EU Focus MKI top ratings in quality and reliability.

You said it.......GERMAN ASSEMBLED.....that's the key.......not built at Wayne. I wager to take a new 12 Focus built at Wayne...and German built counterpart....and we will see who can...and can't build quality......the Germans are perfectionists, educated and engineers....UAW members are Joes/Janes who walk up off of the street and turn wrenches for $70 per hour.

[dfw.embalmer]

Originally Posted by Jazzdog

Maybe not a fair comparison as the 08/09 Focus is in reality legacy from the 00 model in a lot of respects. Starting with new tools for components and assy line has a lot of advantages.

Why don't we table the discussion until after the 11 NA Focus shows up? After all, they are assembling the parts they are given with the tools they are provided.

The 11 NA Focus is already here, saw one today when I went to pick up my tags..........and it doesn't have anything to do with parts or tools......it's the fact that if the shift whistle blows and someone is in the middle of screwing down a seat, they stop seat half screwed and by the time the next guy is in line and up...that car is down the line with a half screwed seat. (in Hapeville Ga they call "cripples" cars that go out with PARTS MISSING...it happens.


C'mon it's (the Fiesta) built in a third world country, and is better than what is built in the USA! The people down south are very proud of what they do and aren't concerned about the next contract, or the current contract and they aren't worried about the beer bust down at the union hall....they are proud what they do!

[golf strom]

Originally Posted by dfw.embalmer

The 11 NA Focus is already here, saw one today when I went to pick up my tags..........and it doesn't have anything to do with parts or tools......it's the fact that if the shift whistle blows and someone is in the middle of screwing down a seat, they stop seat half screwed and by the time the next guy is in line and up...that car is down the line with a half screwed seat. (in Hapeville Ga they call "cripples" cars that go out with PARTS MISSING...it happens.

Have you been in a domestic car plant in the last decade? I have....I can't reveal which ones though, I wish I could.

That stuff you mention going on has been gone for at least a decade.

[dfw.embalmer]

Originally Posted by golf strom

Have you been in a domestic car plant in the last decade? I have....I can't reveal which ones though, I wish I could.

That stuff you mention going on has been gone for at least a decade.

Yes, I can...I worked in logistics management before getting back in the Funeral business....and I was regularly in a Non Union shop in Kentucky......and a Union Shop in Shreveport (where trucks (hint) were hanging by chains going down the line) the place was a dump....you could eat off of the floors in Kentucky....our drivers never had trouble in Kentucky, and if you got to Shreveport, and it was break time, they would stop unloading you, and go to the next appt when they came back from break and unload you at the end of the shift....BIG DIFFERENCE...I have also been to the Ford Plants in Dearborn, where the Mustang used to be built...place was filthy.

[golf strom]

Although the union plants I was in were not down south ( they all make cars) the plants are clean, well organized, and the line workers are very diligent at completing their tasks I've seen NO laziness at all and have been at several of them very recently!..also can say that the plants I have been in DO NOT include low volume vehicles. (hint hint)

[dfw.embalmer]

Originally Posted by golf strom

Although the union plants I was in were not down south ( they all make cars) the plants are clean, well organized, and the line workers are very diligent at completing their tasks I've seen NO laziness at all and have been at several of them very recently!..also can say that the plants I have been in DO NOT include low volume vehicles. (hint hint)

Touche' not totally bashing the organized workers, Gettlefinger just didn't do them any favors when he killed GM and Chrysler...

[golf strom]

I hear you....


The problem is/was not only with the UAW it was with the executive management as well.

One of the biggest complaints the rank and file had was that while the execs were constantly asking for more and more cuts, the upper management were taking NONE.

I'm thinking that if the CEOs and upper management would have been willing to take drastic pay and benefits cuts the workers would have too.

"Leading by example" is something I live by...and you would think that business leaders would as well but unfortunately this has not often been the case.